EP 8: Camari Mick

Transcript

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Welcome to Hospitality On The Rise, the podcast about the people shaping the hospitality industry and their journeys. I'm your host, Alice Cheng, founder and CEO of Culinary Agents, hospitality's go-to hiring platform. And I'm here to give you your dose of virtual mentorship.

Here, we'll be sharing the stories, lessons learned, and advice from hospitality leaders who've carved out their own path to success. After all, this industry is where many get their start and go on to do incredible things.

Whether you're a pro, starting out, or just love the hustle, this podcast highlights what makes hospitality extraordinary, the people.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

We're so excited to have Camari Mick with us today. She is the Executive Pastry Chef at The Musket Room, Raf's, and Cafe Zaffri here in New York, and also a partner at Raf's. Amongst many other things, she's also a big ray of sunshine, which in the gloomy days–it gets dark at 5 PM here in New York–is very welcome.

I'm going to rattle off some of the recent awards because, you know, the show's not long enough here for other things. In 2023, Forbes’ 30 Under 30 - Food and Drink. 2024, Robb Report’s “10 Rising Power Players in American Fine Dining” along with some of her partners here. 2024, Food & Wine Best New Chef.

And 2022 to 2025, JBFA Semifinalist Outstanding Pastry Chef. So this is going to be a big year in June. Anyway, that being said, you don't get these accolades and get to where you are overnight. So we're here to hear about Camari's journey and some of the things she learned along the way. So Camari, welcome.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK 

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

So tell us how it all began.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

So it started with me being a chubby kid, and I always wanted something sweet after dinner, and my parents were great cooks, but they're terrible bakers. So I kind of begged my mom to start baking with me and as we started baking, we started bonding.

And I got really good at it, to the point I started selling stuff in school, like cakes and cookies and cobblers too. And post-that, it comes to the conversation from my parents of what do I want to do with my life? And I told them that I wanted to be a forensic pathologist. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

As you do.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK 

Right, as one does. And my dad was like, “Listen. You're clearly good at baking, you clearly love it, and it can be more than a hobby for you. You can make a career out of this.” And I never thought that that was an option. So having two people stand behind me on 10 toes, saying that I could be a chef, was really inspiring for me. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love that. We don't hear that often enough. Right.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, especially with immigrant parents because my dad's from Jamaica and my mom, she's from Brooklyn. But typically they were like, “You would be a lawyer, be a doctor.” You know, I'm pretty sure you know it.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, it's not stereotypical for a good reason, but...

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

But yeah, I mean, I'm sure your parents are proud of you. Look at all that you've done, please. 

But yeah, it’s definitely part of my narrative, and I would not be who I am today without my parents. So I'm glad that I went that route and not carving up dead bodies to find out how they died.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I mean, we're very happy. You know, the consumers are also very happy you chose this path. I've been many-a-lucky recipient of your delicious creation. So I thank you on behalf of the listeners. So you made the decision. You're like, “All right, got the blessing” in a way from the parents, literally. And you're off and running.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Off and running. I went to college at The Restaurant School at Walnut Hill College in Philadelphia. I got my Associate’s, and then I was like, “Ooh, I want to do another year.” And then I got my Bachelor's. And then post-that, I was off into the real world. Started in Nantucket at Ventuno, which was a Italian restaurant. And I was there for two seasons.

Then I bounced around to New York after that. And that's kind of where I was starting to lay my roots. I worked for Daniel Boulud, Thomas Keller. I worked for Eric Ripert and all…

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

A couple of names, a couple of folks that people might've heard of.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Just a couple of names. Right. And then post-pandemic, I was working at TAK Room under Thomas Keller, which unfortunately closed during the pandemic. I was kind of in this limbo area where I was like–I mean, as everybody was in 2020–where it was just like this close to not returning to the industry and kind of like doing something else. I was just like, I don't know what food is gonna do, you know? Like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I was living with my parents. I moved back in from New York and I was just like in space. 

And then at Maison Yaki with Greg Baxtrom, he had a pop-up throughout the summer that highlighted black chefs, which was really, really cool. And I did that and I got some momentum off of it. Got a lot of new followers, got a lot of new fans. Then post-that, I was like, “Okay, I need to keep up with this momentum even if I don't have a job.” 

So I started making donuts and selling donuts through my Instagram. And I was biking all over the city, delivering these donuts, and come to find out Nicole Vatagliano–the sister of the owner, Jennifer Vatagliano of The Musket Room–bought some. They bought six to be exact. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Wow, I'm still visualizing you on a bike delivering donuts by the way.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Right, just like [IMITATES RIDING ON A BIKE]

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it, I love it.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Bought my donuts, and I get a DM later, like, “Would you be willing to come in for an interview?” I'm like “Sure, why not?” You know, we're here. i'm not doing anything. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I love it. You just slip into the DMs, and there you go. Here you are.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, right. So I go in for the interview, and they're like, “So we had your donuts. We love them. We would like to hire you.” And that was it

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

And I love Jennifer and Nicole. Like I could see this all going down. They’re, like, business. Like no great, you know, let's put the fluff to the side and get down to it.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Let's get down to it. So essentially they had a food truck coming. And so they were also on a timeline as well. So they had a food truck coming. Out of the food truck, the idea was to sell baked goods to the neighborhood to get some sort of other revenue without being inside the restaurant. 

Because of that, I was like the perfect candidate, just because I was doing donuts, I was doing cinnamon rolls and just kind of other delicious things. And I already kind of was garnering that following. So I was hired, and that was 2020.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it. I love it. You know, these are the stories that we want to hone in on about COVID. Businesses, restaurateurs towards figuring out how to adjust, and survive, and get business or take a positive spin to the situation. And then talent, basically making it happen, getting back into it, and then that naturally attracting a great partnership.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

So I love it. I didn't know that story. Thank you for sharing.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, that's where Raf's was kind of born from. We had a really good success with the food truck. Because it was a loaner, we didn't buy it. When it was time to give it back, we were just like, “Okay, bye, baked goods.” The restaurant opened back up, and now we're doing tasting menus and plated desserts again. And there was definitely that miss for me. 

We had brunch on the weekends at Musket Room too. I would still do like, “Oh, let me do like a little pastry basket and see if that sells.” So we were kind of just throwing things at the wall to see if it would stick. Then the Parisi–so Raf’s, where it is now, was formerly the Parisi space. So when Parisi closed in 2022, we went to go see the spot, give it out feels, and then as we were doing research, we found out that back in the 1930s, it was a woman-owned bakery called Angie's Bakery, which the two twin ovens in the back fed the neighborhood. You would make your bread at home and then bring it to Angie's Bakery, and they would bake it all for you. Yeah.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Wow, look at that. And you guys transformed that into a beautiful–I don't want to use the word “feminine.”It's just a beautiful sexy space. Yeah. 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

I think it is very feminine. think, I mean, it's random. I'm a woman, so it better be a little feminine.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah. OK, good. You said it. I don't know. Yeah. No, I mean, you walk in, you feel luxurious, like, “OK, I'm here to dine.” 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, I definitely agree.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it. I love it. OK, so now you guys have this new project. And this was just a couple years ago.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Cafe Zaffri?

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

No, Raf's, that was just a couple years ago, Yeah.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Raf’s. Yeah, Raf’s was literally to celebrate our two year anniversary on March 14th.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Wow, wow, wow. And that didn't keep you busy enough because you put another project on top of that.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, yeah. So we opened a hotel. Essentially Cafe Zaffri is Mary's baby where it's celebrating her Lebanese heritage and throughout the Levant region as well. So we are sitting in the 22 Hotel, and Cafe Zaffri is the public restaurant because a part of the 22 is also a members club as well. On the second floor is going to be another restaurant that services only the members.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Great. How is that for you? Because you're playing with different flavors there as well from your other restaurants.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, I mean, it was definitely a new approach to me. And I really took this on as more like a research project, more than like, “Okay, let me just throw some like orange blossom and call it the Middle East.” That's rude, that's disrespectful. We're not gonna do that type of appropriation. 

So I reached out to a bunch of chefs, I ate at different restaurants, I got all of the books. I was in the library. I was in Bonnie Slotnick's, I don't know if you've ever been…

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I haven't been.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

It has old out of print cookbooks, and any and everything you can think of, she has it. I know she, for a fact, she has a thousand-dollar first edition barely-used Julia Child's cookbook there, and that is just gorgeous. 

But anyways, yes, Cafe Zaffri. I was doing a ton of research. I was talking to a ton of chefs, and it was just a big undertaking just to test and retest, test and retest, and find that healthy balance of kind of modernizing without appropriating. So it was definitely a challenge that I took on, and I just wanted to be respectful to the whole cuisine and culture.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Well, from an amateur taste tester to a chef, you did a great job. It's delicious. That cheesecake is something very special. I too was a chubby kid. And that kind of brings me to one of my questions, look, how do you stay inspired? Right. Clearly you have this self motivational drive, which is important. But you have Raf’s, which is more Italian. And then you've got Cafe Zaffri that, like you said, you had to do some research and get there. What keeps you inspired as you continue to grow?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

As I continue to grow, what keeps me inspired is knowing that there's a generation behind me that is too fighting to get to where I am. And I want to be able to continue to pave the way for the black and brown chefs that want to follow in my steps. So as I am continually coming up with things for all these different avenues–Musket Room is globally inspired, Raf's is Italian and French, and then Cafe Zaffri is for the Levant region. 

I'm constantly trying to draw inspiration from the people and the cuisine and then the history too. So at Raf's, what I'm really excited about is we just launched this whole new direction for the bakery where we're taking the Moorish and North African influences on Sicily and turning that into pastries. So we now have a harissa chocolate cake, an agrodulce sticky bun, a caponata Danish, like just new age, new fun modern things that are blending and molding together. Because the Moors occupied Sicily for over a century, so there's definitely bound to be some things that were left behind.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

Absolutely. That's so incredible. It's like all that history that can be told through food as well is so interesting. And that's how you continue to inspire also the diner. People want to try different things. And there's so many restaurants in New York City. How do you stand out from the other, right? Not just to the diner, but as a place to work, right?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK 

Yeah. Yeah.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

And I know that you've shared some of your insights about leadership, which is one of the things that we want to extract on this pod as well, is the way you motivate your team. It's one thing to find the right folks, and it's the other thing to motivate them and to help them learn. And you have multiple kitchens to do that. So what are some of the ways that you keep the team focused and motivated?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

I like to come up with new initiatives to continually keep everybody focused. So at Raf’s, Raf’s is clearly my baby. I say I don't have favorites, but Raf’s is up there.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I won't tell.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

So last year, which was a huge success, we had the Croissant Club. I essentially asked chefs around the city, what would be your dream croissant? Like how could we, Raf's team, make you your dream croissant? And we had some really, really good ones. So we worked with Semma, Chef Vijay from Semma, and then we did Sophia Roe. Who else? I feel like last year was so long ago.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I know.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

I know. But as we're actually starting to plan the new second annual Croissant Club. Yeah, so we have some really great people. Clearly, I love Unapologetic Foods. So we have the Dhamaka team coming in, the Naks team, Fariyal Abdullahi from Hav & Mar. We are also working along…

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, she’s great!

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, isn't she great? Hawa Hassan, Mehreen, she is a Bangladeshi–excuse me, she's a Pakistani chef. It's so many different types of chefs from different aspects that we pulled in. And it’s exciting to, one, we get to learn a little bit more about their culture, their cuisine, who they are as people. Because we see these people on Instagram, and we would look up to them, and we never have an opportunity to collab or come together and create something. Whether it's because our cuisines are too different, maybe we're all too busy, and everybody's bandwidth is shrinking more and more each day. 

So this is like a fun way for us to reach out to chefs that we admire and we want to work with and say, “Hey, we'll create this for you, and you don't have to do a thing. The work is on us.” We literally invite them in for croissants. As you can see in my earrings.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I was like, “Yeah, croissant earrings. I love it.”

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, we invite them in, we share a few croissants, we talk about the ideas, especially my sous chef, Lisa. We talk about the ideas, and then we go to the drawing board and create a few things. Then we have the chef come back in, or we come to go to them. They taste, they approve, and then we go live. So it's gonna be throughout the summer, post-Memorial Day, all the way up until August, and it's 10 croissants, 10 chefs, and it's gonna be exciting. And if you get all 10 croissants, because there's a punch card, you get a special surprise at the end. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

You get a giant croissant!

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

You get a giant croissant!

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it. You know, that's one of the things that–I don't want to say we just started seeing more of it. But I would say in the past, maybe five-to-seven years, this collaboration-slash-coming together of the industry in a different way, whether it's within the same city or even folks visiting and just working together. And that really speaks volumes to both, you know, what you and the team have built here, but then also your ability to kind of bring other people together. It's great. I'm very excited for it. And I think all of our carb lovers are going to love that, too. 

So, you know, you worked at several really incredible kitchens and businesses. You know, mentorship is something that I think in this industry is crucially important, especially for those who may not live in a big city or haven't had the chance to get their foot in the door somewhere. It's one of the reasons why we have this, is to apply some virtual mentorship, so people can get some snippets of advice. 

So for someone who's starting out and may or may not have gone to school and may still be in that like, “I don't know if this is the thing for me long-term, but I love it.” What advice would you give to them?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Okay, if you are trying to decide if you want to go into this industry, I highly suggest that you set up a stage. Find a chef that you kind of like their work. Look, you know, go through their Instagram, look through their menu, see if you like what they are currently doing. And if you do, reach out to them. I am a firm believer of sliding in the DMs.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Clearly.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Like I am like, “hey,” like for all of these Croissant Clubs people, I slide in their DMs. I'm like, “Hey, would you like to do a croissant with me?”

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

I feel like that's how we initially met.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

I think so!

 

HOST:ALICE CHENG

I was like, “Hey, we want to feature you. You're awesome.”

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

So I'm a firm believer. I mean, that is the modern day of walking into a restaurant and handing your resume. Sliding in the DMs is like the equivalent of that. So I'm from a firm believer of like, “Hey, can I come in for a trail? Can I set up a trail?” You know, nobody's gonna really turn down free labor, so yeah. 

You know, go in, watch, be respectful, learn a few things. You walk away from that trail with a meal, with some newfound knowledge, and maybe a job offer, you know? You never know. For two, just continue to do your research. It's finding your avenue. If you want to do pastry, do you want to do savory? If you want to do pastry, like do you want to do breads, cakes? Do you want to specialize in plated desserts? Do you want to work in a restaurant? Do you want to work in a bakery? 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

There's a lot of options.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

There's a lot of options, and it's not linear. You don't have to stick to one thing either. I find that there's a lot of people who tend to go the cake route or the bread route, and then that's kind of all they do. But as a restaurant pastry chef, I find that you have to be a little bit more well-rounded. Pastry chefs are a dying breed almost sometimes sadly. It's always the first department to get cut in a restaurant. We always have the least amount of labor–or at least amount of hands, I should say, because our labor is so high. And because our food cost is so low, it kind of doesn't balance out the way savory balances out, where you have these high ingredients and kind of same amount of labor, but you can charge more for it. Nobody's buying a $72 pastry, even though I consider that it's worth $72, you know?

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. We actually saw that in the data at Culinary Agents where there were years actually leading up to COVID–obviously, we didn't know that was going to happen–where we saw a decline in businesses hiring pastry specific positions, whether they found other ways to satisfy the sweet side, or they were doing pre-plated, or they were outsourcing, whatever it may be. But then we saw it come back. All of a sudden, we saw a big uptick.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Mm. Yup

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

You know, some of that is because consumer behavior, people were buying desserts more. They wanted more elaborate desserts or concepts. You know, we're focusing more on that side. And that was a really positive uptick, so we're also seeing that trend continue now. So for those of you who love pastry…

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

I'm glad to hear that. I'm hiring here now, so... 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Well, there you go. Yeah. On Culinary Agents. Perfect!

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

You guys just posted, so I love that.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it and I think you said something really important there, which is like you don't have to just pick one route. There's a lot of different things, right?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

There's a lot of different rounds, and your career is not just going to be five years. Your career is going to be– if you're in it to win it– your career is going to be the rest of your life. And at least it's going to be the rest of my life. So, I mean, you don't have to stick to one thing. I worked in restaurants my whole career. There was two bakeries sprinkled in there, but I was not really that morningtime person. Look at me now, I opened a bakery. So there's that balance that you can find later in life. I'm saying later in life, but later in your career. This is like, I'm 30.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I know. I was like, wait, didn't you just get 30 under 30?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK:

[LAUGHING] Later in life. Back in my day!

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

But no, I love it. You're absolutely right. You know, we're big evangelists of the skills that you're learning, and whatever you're doing at that time will take you into your next next thing. And the common thread that all leaders hone in on is have the passion, the hunger to learn, do a good job, listen, and be a team player, do your thing. And people will notice and want to support and help. And you will better understand what might be a better fit for you as well. So it's like the clarity comes when all the noise goes away. I love that, I love that. Is there something, like an opportunity, that came across your plate over the years that you're like, “I kind of wonder what that would have been like if I did that?” Like a big move or something.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, for a few weeks I worked in Paris. It was only like three weeks that I was kind of just staging over there at Chateau Le Rouge in the 8th arrondissement. And I had a job offer, but I didn't have the funds to just up and move to Paris. I barely had enough funds to do the three weeks. So I always wonder, like, “what if I just stayed over there? Would my French be better?” Definitely. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Would you love croissants even more? Maybe.

 

GUEST:CAMARI MICK

Would I love croissants even more? Probably! 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, so I definitely wonder if I did that. And then also, pre-pandemic, there was definitely, like, a split in the universe. There's another Camari out there that's probably living in San Diego. And then also in this other realm, COVID didn't happen. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Because if COVID didn't happen, I literally… I was about to sign the contract. This was, like, March, 2020, about to sign the contract. My lease is up in May. In May I was gonna move to San Diego and kind of open up kind of like a Raf's essentially. Like a bakery with a full service dinner–breakfast, lunch, and dinner too. But in San Diego. It was gonna be interesting, I know for sure.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Well, you know, I am a firm believer of the world works in mysterious ways,and things usually work out the way they were supposed to. Selfishly, I'm happy it worked out. In my personal favor, right? Because I'm closer to your pastries now. I love it. And who knows what the future may hold?

That's another amazing thing about this industry. It's like these skills that you learn really open up a lot of different opportunities. And I'm happy. I love your partners. I'm happy to see you all continue to grow. I think it's not easy to kind of connect and find your little group, if you will, 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

and be so creatively compatible and supportive of each other and grow. You know, this is a hard industry. It's a hard business. And the crew is. Also, by the way, can we give a moment to how quickly Cafe Zaffri came about? 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Well, quickly to you guys. To us, who are planning and testing, like, ugh.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I mean, that's true. That's true. Isn't it? It's like from the outside looking in, I'm like, “Ooh, one day you said we're going to do this.” And then a couple of months later, bam.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK 

Yeah. You were right. I know. All of a sudden my friends got the friends and family invite, and they're like, “What is Cafe Zaffri?” And I was like, “Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you guys we're opening up another restaurant. I'm sorry! I'm busy! You need to come here now!” 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Like, “This is why I haven't responded to you!”

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

“Keep up guys!”

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it, I love it. What's next? Got projects up your sleeve?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

What's next? Yeah, so I'm kind of in my travel bag these days. I'm also working on a book. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yes!

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

So I'm doing pop-ups, and I'm taking in research and taking all of this in and all of my experiences. And really my next steps are to get this down on paper and testing a few recipes for the general public to be able to execute.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Amazing. Well, if you need any taste testers, you know where to find me. 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

I absolutely do.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

No, that's great. Obviously it goes without saying a lot of hard work and grind has brought you to this point. Oftentimes people are like, “OK, you know, I want to open a spot. I want to write a book, or a cookbook or a book or whatever.” 

Are you intentionally laying out these milestones and goals for yourself, or are things kind of brought to you and falling in your lap? As it may seem.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

These have always been goals of mine. It's not like I write them down or anything. I don't do a vision board. I just kind of, like, “I would want to do this one day.” And then when I'm in conversations, when I'm in these rooms and I see the path forward, that's when I attack, you know, like, okay, I can do this. 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

That's awesome. I mean, that's really incredible. You knew that about yourself. I think that's important that I'll latch on to is when you put it out there–at least for me and for a lot of folks that I tend to be attracted to–you put it out there, and you never know who's listening. And nobody's going to know how they could potentially help you, or what connection they can make for you, or what your ambitions are unless you put it out there. Right? I mean, you read the room, right? People don't care.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Right, right.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Keep it to yourself. But you know, when you reach a point, and you're doing these projects and you're collaborating, I feel that genuinely people want to help. Especially in this industry, and they don't know how to help if you don't put it out there.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah. Exactly.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

And that could be at any level, right? Whether you're starting out and you realize that you do love it, you want to do more, or it might not be the direction that you want to go, but you're interested in something else. Many people, especially leaders in this industry and upcoming leaders, actually welcome those conversations versus the latter, right?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah. Yeah.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

This industry is not for the faint of heart.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Unfortunately, it's not. I'm trying to make like… my kitchens are always a safe space for anybody to speak their mind. This is a collaborative. This is also just food. It is food. At the end of the day… I remember my sous chef was getting really on herself about when we went live with the sticky bun, and I was telling them, “It's fine. Well, 86 for the day. It's good.”

“You know what? You know what we're gonna tell guests? ‘You have to come a little bit earlier, it's sold.” 

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

You're sold out.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Yeah, “We had a line in the beginning.’” Like, it's food.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I mean, that storyline works. 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

It really does.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Because the next day the line is out the door, like 30 minutes before you open the doors. I love it. 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Exactly, exactly.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Well, Camari, I have got a couple of quick-fire questions for you. 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Let's do it.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

And then I'll let you go on your day to R&D and baking deliciousness. What advice would you tell your younger self?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Speak up more, and say it with your whole chest.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I like it. What's your advice for someone struggling in the industry?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Take a step back, whether it's a long weekend, or maybe it's just having a conversation with an “elder” in the culinary space, and then attack.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Okay, I like it. For those of you not watching video, the elder was in air quotes. What's your advice for fellow hospitality leaders?

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Continue to… build. Continue to share the stage and share the spotlight. You're going to an event, bring one of your top cooks, top sous chefs with you, and let them experience that too.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it, I love it. Camari, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy, busy day. Just recently opened another restaurant. You've got all these awesome projects underway. I selfishly am very happy to see you and get my personal Facetime. I know that your advice and your words of wisdom will be very valued amongst our audience. So thank you.

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK

Thank you! Thanks for having me. This was so much fun.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I know. All right, we'll do it again. 

 

GUEST: CAMARI MICK 

Alright.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Have a great one. Bye.

 

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Remember, success looks different for everyone in hospitality. No two paths are the same. If you have a leader or a topic you want to hear about, email [email protected].

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