EP 4: Ahris Kim

Transcript

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Welcome to Hospitality On The Rise, the podcast about the people shaping the hospitality industry and their journeys. I'm your host, Alice Cheng, founder and CEO of Culinary Agents, hospitality's go-to hiring platform. And I'm here to give you your dose of virtual mentorship.

Here, we'll be sharing the stories, lessons learned, and advice from hospitality leaders who've carved out their own path to success. After all, this industry is where many get their start and go on to do incredible things.

Whether you're a pro, starting out, or just love the hustle, this podcast highlights what makes hospitality extraordinary, the people.

We are so excited to have Ahris Kim with us today, Director of Operations at NA:EUN Hospitality, which includes Atomix, Atoboy, NARO, events, all other things. I'm going to let Ahris talk about it. But we're here really to hear about how Ahris got started and all the amazing things that she's been working on. So Ahris, welcome.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Thank you, Alice. It's a pleasure to be here. Actually, my journey with NA:EUN and Atoboy started with Culinary Agents, so it is truly a full circle moment.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
I love it.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
I still remember sending in–and that's when a long cover letter was very much a prerequisite–so writing a very thoughtful cover letter to Ellia in the hopes of getting my foot in the door. And so here we are about, I think, eight and a half years or almost nine years later.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Wow. Wow, I love it. Believe me, I'm going to dig, dig deep into that because any time Culinary Agents is part of this career growth story, I just love it. It gives me chills. But how did it all start? How did you know that you wanted to be in hospitality?

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
You know, I don't think I knew that hospitality was a career path–even an option–as a first generation immigrant. So I moved here in seventh grade. I was born and raised in Korea; first born daughter, the oldest daughter. I was raised to need to become a doctor or lawyer, you know, the same old story. And I wanted to be the best son that they never had. Very proud. And so I took all these pre-med classes in high school. I was terrible at science. I was always an English and history gal.

And in senior year, I took those MBTI personality tests that guidance counselors give you, and everything pointed towards non-medical field roles. And I signed up to all these university catalogs. And that's when I found that undergraduate studies in hotel and tourism and hospitality was actually a course that are being offered.

And back then in high school, coincidentally, when looking back, my first job was selling hot dogs at a weekend fair in Wisconsin. But everyone was in service industry at one point in time, but I really enjoyed it and was really good at it. And when I was looking through the course curriculum and the potential career path graduating from a hotel and towards a management course, it's like, I think this is something that I could enjoy and potentially I could do.

And naively, my 17-year-old self thinking, “If I have a degree in hospitality, does that mean that I could travel anywhere in the world and possibly have a job? mean, there are hotels everywhere. People have to eat. There are restaurants everywhere.” And so I think I took a leap of faith. I don't think my mom was too happy about my decision to [be] like, “Hey, I don't think I want to go into the medical field anymore. There is this really exciting course called Hotel and Tourism Management.” But that's how I started. I don't think I knew the extent of [what] that industry entailed until I went in and found myself at NYU. First time in New York as an 18 year old. My first visit to New York City was my move-in day. And that's essentially how my journey officially began.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Wow, that's like a lot of change and a lot of stuff all at once. I feel like not just kind of changing what you were thinking you were going to do, but then taking the risk to move to a city like New York, which is like no other city, obviously. And NYU, for those who don't know, the campus is in the city.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
In the city. And I think back then, because I grew up in Seoul, but then I moved to Wisconsin, it's a very stark difference. And my mom, not speaking English well, relied on me heavily. There was a lot of pressure in the family. So I think when I turned 18, I had an opportunity to go as far as I can to a city that's not in Wisconsin.

So I took the chance, and I still remember… I had an opportunity to do a small commencement speech at a program at NYU when I graduated, and I talk about how I got off the airport shuttle and the city bus goes by, and the fume and I inhaled and I almost felt like, “I think this is it. This is where I'm meant to be.” It almost felt like the nostalgia of growing up in Seoul. I think this is like, “I'm an adult now and I'm independent. I'm 18, and this is the city that I'm going to start my life.”

HOST: ALICE CHENG
I love it. It's such an early age. I mean, that's great. So now you're now you're in it. You're in school. You're still enjoying it, I believe, because it's a very logical train of thought, by the way, going into hotel management. Yes, hotels around the world. There is a lot of travel and opportunity that comes with that. So you're in school, you're still loving it, I'm assuming. And now what?

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
I think… NYU hotel programs back then was very, very small. My graduating class was about 62 classmates alongside myself. And back then Cornell, obviously proximity-wise, was THE hotel school. But what we had over the Cornell colleagues was the fact that we could intern or visit sites all year round. What we are doing is we're doing site visits during class hours. So we're doing back of the house tours at Le Cirque. We're meeting at the Essex house and doing the banquet room tours. We're able to intern during the school years, whereas the Cornell school students have to wait until winter break or summer break unless they're doing it at the working hotel.

And so I really dove deep and fell into the concentration, which was food and beverage. And this is when hotels had very newly discovered chef partnerships. And this is a very different era now, but this is when Chef Laurent Tourondel, the BLT concepts were booming in New York. And I got an opportunity to intern at the Ritz-Carlton Central Park, which back then for me was like the goal. I wanted to learn the treating ladies and gentlemen the way that they should and the best hospitality training program that was known back then. And so to be admitted to the prestigious internship program at the Ritz-Carlton was my highest achievement. So I fulfilled all of my internship hours there. And my classmates often joke that I was completely brainwashed. I became a Ritz-Carlton mania. I carried my Credo card and I lived in this Bushwick apartment.

Back then Bushwick wasn't even cool. Now there are natural wine bars in my block. I still go by, I can't believe the transformation that Bushwick is seeing, but I [would] travel about an hour and 15 minutes to Central Park location. This 19-year old college student, changed into my suit, and pop into the lobby lounge. Marble floors, beautiful paintings, live piano playing. Tony Bennett used to come in for afternoon tea. I'm brushing shoulders with the ladies that are living on Central Park South and just the air.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
The ladies who lunch.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Yeah, totally. And just being in that mix and creating those experiences and just seeing also what goes on behind the scenes, just so fascinating to me. And it was just really exhilarating, and it sounds so cliche, but you feel kind of in the zone, and you have this like glow moment. And I think you find the extreme sense of belonging. And that was my first, I think, validation–thinking, “I think I'm going in that right direction.” And obviously there are moments that waver because hospitality–you know, in the meantime, my friends in at NYU that are in finance that are going pre-law… their career path, whether it's salary range, it's a very vast difference, vastly different. But I had passion, I had joy, and I had great pride and sense of purpose. And so that kind of fueled me and my day-to-day.

And something that I felt again, when I went out to Aspen after New York, it's just an emotional field of work. I think your sense of accomplishments comes in not results, as in “well, now with my day to day,” it certainly is like revenue driven, right? It can be staff retention. It can be you achieving budget goals. But in the beginning, it's very much changing someone's lives or guest experiences that really touch your heart, that really stick with you. I think those are the moments when I knew, “I think this is where I want to be and this is the industry that I want to continue on.”

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Yeah. Wow. It's powerful because I think a lot of people in this industry, regardless of where they are in their career journey, that seems to be a common thread. And you have to love it. It has to fulfill something or else it's it's it's just not within. And that can be applied to any industry, really. But hospitality kind of hits differently because it has that extra heart in it.

So New York to Aspen. We just talked about how you inhaled gas…

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
And the different kind of air.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
… and a different high on air, and you're like, “I'm home. This is for me.” And now you're in Aspen, which is like the cleanest air ever. Take me through that transition.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
I did a lot of bouncing around in my twenties. So I studied hotels and restaurants at NYU. My professors were adjunct faculty. They were in the field of New York hospitality market. The guest professors/speakers were from New York, or visits from New York properties. Everything was centered around New York was, it was my central focus. We were the crème de la crème. You can make it anywhere if you made it New York, that kind of mentality, which is fine. But I wanted to sort of defy that. And I had a bit of commitment-phobia as to where I wanted to root down. But how do you know where to root down as a, you know, 19, 20 year old?

And when I graduated, it was 2009, and it was right after the economic recession began, and it was not looking good as for the job market. It really opened up my eyes to, “OK, I think I want to look beyond what's in New York. I don't think I can call myself a hospitality expert if all I know is New York.” I just know the New York market. I know the consumers that are coming to New York. But if you pull me out of New York restaurants or New York hotels, I don't know if I would be a valuable asset to any company. So back then I had a friend who had a seasonal job at the Aspen Skiing Company. So I just, again, had never been to Colorado, didn't even know exactly where Aspen was. Just saw it on tabloids where stars vacation, right? Or Aspen Food & Wine. And [I] took a job with the Food and Beverage Department at Aspen Skiing Company. And at 23, I moved to Aspen and lived in the mountains.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Wow, that's quite a change. And actually, if you're going to go anywhere, Aspen is like this little haven of food and beverage. I feel like The Little Nell and a lot of these other establishments up there have really [seen] a lot of great talent come through as well.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Mm-hmm. It's very closely connected to New York City in an odd way.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Yes, yes. And we see that more and more, actually, with just the businesses and people that are popping up. So you're in Aspen, you're breathing some nice, clean air. I don't know if you're a skier, but it's also beautiful in the spring and summer. And what next? I'm cheating here. looking at your career timeline and it looks like you made your way over to Milwaukee.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Yeah, Aspen was great. It really taught me how to be a leader. It was my first management role, but opportunities were limited because it is a mountain town. It's a resort town. It is very on-and-off season. And if you want to stay in Aspen long-term, you really have to love the Aspen life. I can ski, but I was all about building my career. And with limited opportunities, Aspen wasn't an ideal town for me. I also missed being close to my family. Then they were based in the Midwest. I also thought Milwaukee back then–and still, I mean, Top Chef Milwaukee a few years ago, I think really spotlighted the city. But this was when Portland and Austin and these second tier cities were starting to boom. And I really thought Milwaukee was such a hidden gem. I wanted to see what was going on in the hospitality scene at my hometown.

And so I went home to see if there are any things that I can explore with my family within reach. This is when I think… I don't know if I speak on behalf of many female hospitality professionals, but I was thinking about, “Okay, I think I eventually want to get married, start a family. I don't know how sustainable it is for me to close a restaurant, go home at 2AM. Maybe I need something that is closer to nine to five, but how do I find something that way that still fulfills me? ’Cause I do want to work with food and beverage.” So I found a catering sales role at a hotel in Milwaukee, but soon I found that I can't be behind the desk. I missed being on the floor. I missed the adrenaline. And so what I ended up doing is I had the 9-to-5, but then I found an evening part-time gig at a wine bar.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Of course.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
I'm sorry, somehow had to have my plug. And so I tried that, and I thought, “Maybe you don't have to find a traditional, like, conventional way. Maybe there is a way to have a future and have a family that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't be on the floor.” Nothing really matters if that means you have to sit behind a desk with a job that doesn't fulfill you. And I think that's what taught me in Milwaukee. And I eventually found a restaurant, a small restaurant in Milwaukee that gave me an opening opportunity, which a lot of my mentors told me, “You need to partake in an opening process.” Which is really eye-opening. Opening, that's eye-opening. But then I had a New York contact bring me back to New York to run a cooking school for children.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Draws you back in.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
And so I opened this restaurant in Milwaukee. The restaurant is about two months old. We're about to get reviewed by the local newspaper. And I interviewed for a role, for a cooking school for kids back in the city, which would bring me back too. And I did miss New York a lot; all my friends were there. They're establishing their careers, and I'm always…
Every time I'm away from New York food scene, I always had a lot of FOMO. I still do whenever I am away. So this was my chance, and I still remember resigning from my role, and I felt very irresponsible, as I should. If someone gave me a resignation–now that I'm on the other side–I would be very flabbergasted. You know, like, “We just opened this restaurant and you're quitting!”

But I still remember my boss. He was a very wise man. And he told me, “You know, I would be lying if I were to say that I'm not disappointed, but I know that I myself wouldn't be here if I didn't take those opportunities. So I don't think I'm in any place to hold you back. So congratulations. You should go to the city that's calling [you] back.” And so that's what brought me back to New York. 2014, I came back to New York, and essentially I never left until I did go to Oregon, 2021. A lot of, sorry, it's a lot of [MOTIONS BACK AND FORTH]

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Yeah, East Coast, West Coast, bouncing around. Midwest.

That's great. I mean, again–back to your original thought is actually playing out–is that with the set of skills that you have and that you were building and were acquiring, it is transferable. And one of the greatest things about this industry is that you can take that into any city, large or small, or any type of establishment, and they will recognize and value those skills right away. The big difference is volume, right? Are you doing a thousand covers a night or are you doing less than that? So that's great. And you're in New York. And New York is so lucky and happy to have you.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
No, I love New York. You know how when you're in the city, you kind of channel different energy? I think New York brings out the best version of me, and I had to fight it. I left New York three times. I also left restaurants three times to finally know that this is where I'm meant to be. But I'm reading through some of the questions that, when we were thinking about what we should discuss today, some of the decisions to get me to where I am now. Granted, I still have long ways to go. I think I was so insecure about my resume in my 20s because I looked like such a jumper.

Classic, right? I never stayed at a job for more than two years. I was from one city to the next, one company to the other. Whereas my friends are staying at a company. They had a summer analyst job that resulted in a full-time role, and they're with the company for three years, and I didn't have that. So I was always afraid to not land a job interview because of lack of longevity or tenure. But I think that added layers, and it really made me well-rounded, and I have such multitude of experiences and anecdotal moments that are so applicable now. Because in restaurants you come across so many unexpected moments, whether it's with staff interactions or guests or just with vendor relationships. But I think in your gut–kind of going back to what we spoke about, if it is an emotional field of work that's passion driven–as soon as it doesn't feel right in your heart, I felt it didn't sit right with me, and I felt selfish to clock in and take away my pay if my heart full heart wasn't in it to my employers as well. So as soon as I felt that, I started looking for the next job. Although I was insecure then, I feel right. I feel confident in those decisions, looking back.

And so if anyone is staying at a job just for the sake of… Although… the current generation has a tendency to do even shorter.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
I was gonna say, things have changed.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
I would say maybe give it at least six months.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
No, you're absolutely right. And I think this industry is obviously very unique and very different than a lot of others. So hiring managers and leaders can recognize when somebody is moving for an opportunity, a learning opportunity, or a specific opportunity that essentially would benefit them if they were to hire them. So it's slightly different than if you're in a bank and you just move to another bank, and you're doing the same thing or something slightly different.

But you're absolutely right. There's a difference between a jumper–somebody who spends like a month, two months, three months at each place and are clearly just trying to get their footing or building their resume in a unique way–or somebody who's doing something and has reached a point where it's time for something else.

As we're having these conversations with these leaders, the common thread is also having that dialogue with their management so that there's this kind of equal understanding of where you want to go, where you are, can they help you acquire those skills or give you those opportunities? And then once you reach a point where the answer is you're ready for the next thing, you have a support system that knows you and that you can lean on as you enter the next thing. And that comes with time.

And some of it is when you're starting out, and you are trying to get all your experiences under your belt, you're able to take risks differently. Then you reach a point where you're like, okay, this actually feels like home.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Exactly. I think you hit it on the money.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Yeah, so you're home. You're in New York. You're home.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
I mean, in a way, but I think why I found a home–not just in New York, but with Ellia & JP, and where I am now is, and I hope that lot of my team members feel the same–is that we are constantly challenged. And I say it was a little bit of laughter, and it's a bit cheeky because who wants to be constantly challenged, right? Not everyone.

And so sometimes we are like, my gosh. We often joke, and we're like half smiling and half in pain saying, like, “Discomfort means growth, and we love growing so much because there's a lot of discomfort we're experiencing this week”.

But I don't know if I want to be with a company where I'm comfortable all the time. And certainly Ellia and JP are not going to settle for that. And I love them for pushing us, and their ambition, and their drive. That inspires me to inspire our team to continue to think big and keep dreaming. Although sometimes that can be really hard, but I feel the growth trajectory that I was able to follow, because of their leadership and the people that I'm able to surround myself with because of the same mindset, is immensely different and I can attest to.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Yeah, I will second that. I also love Ellia and JP. Ellia and JP, I hope you're listening.

You know, what they have created, not just in guest experience and restaurants and all that, but in the team and culture is nothing short of incredible. The culture can be felt even if you don't work with your team. Be it what you see on social media or just even in the dining room, I've had the pleasure of not only enjoying dining, but also meeting and getting to know a lot of the team members including Ellia and JP and supporting. That really comes through to your guests.

Nowadays, people are choosing where to spend their money amongst a lot of other factors that didn't really come into play maybe 10, 20 years ago or 15 years ago, whatever. But starting out with Atoboy, which you were at, which was Ellia and JP’s first restaurant here in New York City. You were the general manager there. Then growing within an organization–with a little stint in between–but again, the center of gravity bringing you back. And now you're the director of operations, right? So talk me through. You're a general manager, and now you're the director of operations for multiple locations for the whole group.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
It's really cool to be where I'm now because I remember sitting at Atoboy, and Ellia's favorite question to ask everyone–and everyone knows–is “What is your dream? What is your big goal?” I remember one of them I said, “I would someday love to oversee multiple properties.” So I'm like, be careful what you wish for. Here I am, overseeing multiple properties. I don't think we knew what that meant. Just as I was the very first general manager our company ever built the role, and I was the first director of operations role. So first year and a half, we were still building it together. And I think last year was the first time where we thought, “Okay, I think NA:EUN Hospitality's Director of Operations role fulfills these responsibilities.” And because what we try to achieve is we have so many great hospitality groups that we can benchmark. But we also want to do things the way that our properties need us to, or the way that Ellia and JP like us to do.

Sometimes we have myself, Jhonel Faelnar, who is our Beverage Director, and now Saori Minakawa, who is our Director of People and Culture. And you would think that the three roles are very specific, right? I have the operations director, so restaurant operations: financials, revenue, etc. Beverage director, black and white, right? Beverage operations. People culture: HR, things of that nature.

But the way that three of us work together, everything intertwined/overlaps. Sometimes there are disagreements. There are some agreements and discussions, all towards making the best decisions for the company. And it's not a typical organizational structure by any means. But I think that's what makes our company so unique currently. I think right now, my goal currently is to define what it means to be a Director of Operations in my company, because it's starting to become clearer just now.

I think it will continue to change, and change and evolution–and Saori and I were just talking about this yesterday–is something that's very consistent with the ethos of our brand. That is the case with all of our restaurants. JP's cuisine philosophy, he obviously is steadfast in his personal palette by travels, but he doesn't believe in being static. The world is changing, and so should we. We can't get them to say a firm mission statement for the company or values.

But now I get it because our mission statement for 2025 is going to be the mission statement for 2025. But for next year, we're going to have a different mission. Because our goals and values will continue to evolve and expand and change. And I think that is where we are now. So we are this very malleable, this flexible, unique, interesting company forming at this time. But I'm very fortunate to have the people that are around me. It's a really good group of people that we have. Very, very, very, very grateful.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Yeah, I love it. And I think at the end of the day, leaders and owners need to work with their teams to figure out what works for them. Right? And that will draw in the talent and interest for people who want to work with you. Then that'll draw in the guests, the curiosity of like, “what are you doing now?” I think that's a really smart and strategic approach to remain flexible.

Who knows? Things change like every day. Who knows? It's like another surprise. So I can certainly appreciate that as Culinary Agents is 13 years old, and one of our things is constantly being flexible as well. Because we need to be flexible for our clients and the industry. Can definitely relate there.

I want to rattle off a couple of things because I feel like we've been a little too modest with what you and the team have accomplished in the past couple of years. 2019 JBFA Semifinalist: Best new restaurant, 2019 JBFA Winner: Studio Writers for Outstanding Design and 75 Seats and Under. And this is Atomix specifically. 2024 #4 New York Times best New York City Restaurants by Pete Wells, #2 in 2023. 2024 #6 spot in the World's 50 Best Restaurants, top spot for North America list. And this year 2025 JBFA Semifinalist for Outstanding Hospitality. And that's not including your Michelin stars you have for Atomix and Atoboy as well. Right? Does Atoboy have a star? It's recognized.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Atoboy had a Bib Gourmand, mm-hmm.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
I love Atoboy.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
But now we also have Acru, which is our newest affiliation. Our former sous chef of Atomix, he is our Chef-partner. And so this is a new direction for our hospitality group, where it is not Chef JP cuisine-led, but Chef Daniel Garwood. And he also is nominated for a James Beard for Emerging Chef.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Yes.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
And we're very proud of him as well.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
I love it. I'm going to double click on that for a second because I think it's also important not only to say, but actually put action behind your words when you are supporting your people, and you want to see them grow. This was a different project for the group. And I was very lucky to have dined there already, and it has the same feel of warmth and comfort and invitation. And obviously, Daniel's cuisine is amazing. But it's very different than your projects. And I think that's so great. Right? That opens up a whole new chapter, I think, for everyone. I'm sure it was very thoughtful and discussed, etc.

But that is a prime example of “We want to see our people grow. They're ready for the next thing. They either do it with us, and we support them or they do it on their own,” which most people will still support them, assuming that the relationship is established. But you can support them differently. It really, really says something when you support them within your group. So I was so pleased to see that. And I'm sure you all are very proud of how that project is developing because it's fairly new.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
It is. We’re very proud, and we want to continue supporting Daniel and his team, but we're also learning a lot as a supporting group because it is a very different venture. So it is a very exciting time for sure.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Well, on that note, I have quick-fire questions for you. So let's take it back to you because this is about you. Is there one thing that you'd go back and say “yes” to?

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
No, I don't think so. I think I said “yes” to most things. I think I should have said “no” to more things, honestly.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
You're the second person that said that. It seems to have worked out for you. I think I'm actually going to change this question to “What would you say was the biggest ‘yes’ in your career that changed your trajectory?”

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
I think coming back to New York from Oregon within a year. I popped up, I moved across the country, and then Elia was like, “You know, I think you want to come back.” I was like, “I don't know. I just moved out here, but you know what? Let's do it.” And then from March to the next March, I moved across the country back. And I think that was a great “yes.”

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Awesome. I agree. Okay, now really your quick-fire questions. What advice would you tell your younger self?

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Play more.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Also a common theme there. What's your advice for someone struggling in the industry?

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Don't give up, but also don't stay in a situation where you are putting too much, going through too much suffering. Set boundaries.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Great. Set boundaries. I like that. And last one, what's your advice for fellow hospitality leaders?

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
I have a lot. It's not a quick-fire, but really find small joy in every day. Think outside the box. Make connections and really treasure them, nurture them, and keep them close.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
I love it. Thank you so much, Ahris, for your time.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
No, thank you.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
It's so nice to catch up with you. I love, love, love that Culinary Agents played a small role in your career.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Very important.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
A small, very important role. You obviously did all the hard work, but those are things that drive myself and our team to continue. Those are our joys. So thank you again. I'm so lucky to have known you for so many years and been able to be on the receiving end of all of your hospitality. So thank you again. And until next time.

GUEST: AHRIS KIM
Yes, thank you Alice!

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Remember, success looks different for everyone in hospitality. No two paths are the same. If you have a leader or a topic you want to hear about, email [email protected].

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