EP 32: Cherif Mbodji

Transcript

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Welcome to Hospitality On The Rise, the podcast about the people shaping the hospitality industry and their journeys. I'm your host, Alice Cheng, founder and CEO of Culinary Agents, hospitality's go-to hiring platform. And I'm here to give you your dose of virtual mentorship.

Here, we'll be sharing the stories, lessons learned, and advice from hospitality leaders who've carved out their own path to success. After all, this industry is where many get their start and go on to do incredible things.

Whether you're a pro, starting out, or just love the hustle, this podcast highlights what makes hospitality extraordinary, the people.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I'm so excited to have with me today Cherif Mbodji. Cherif is the Chief Operating Officer and Partner at Bludorn Hospitality Group, Partner at Navy Blue, Bludorn, and Perseid, and a Board Member of Southern Smoke Foundation, which is a wonderful organization that we'll hear a little bit more about during the session. Cherif, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Hi Alice, thank you for having me on this podcast. Truly, it's an honor. I'm excited to be on it.

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

Cherif, every time I see you, I just have a big smile. You have this, like, infectious, you know… and maybe it's the hospitality coming out of your pores. I don't know. But let's hear about it. So how did it all begin? How did you get into the hospitality industry?

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

I love that question truly because the answer comes from such an intimate space that I'm always excited to talk about and dive into. For me, hospitality, it's a way of life. It's something that really goes back to where I was born and raised, where I grew up in my homeland, Dakar, Senegal. If you're familiar with Senegal, you might have come across the word “teranga”, which means hospitality. And Senegal prides itself as the country of teranga. It's everywhere. It's in our day-to-day life, as a way of life, as a philosophy. And you see that practice in so many ways. 

And just thinking about myself being a kid growing up, my grandma would very often refer to things that we were supposed to do a certain way because of the spirit of teranga. In a typical household, when we prepare lunch or dinner, people will often leave a plate on the side. Doesn't matter how many people you have to feed in your house, but you never eat all the food you prepare. You leave a plate on the side for just the potential random stranger who may walk into your home, hungry. And it would be considered rude to not put food in front of a person who walks into your house looking for food. 

And those are just little things that are such a strong part of our culture and the way we are. Teranga and hospitality become something people really pride themselves on. So you want to be as hospitable as you can all the time to people around you. And we really never thought much of it as a kid, other than it's just the way we live life. 

And at a young age, I had the huge chance to come to the US here for higher education on a soccer scholarship. And I was scouted in 1999, ended up arriving in the US December 2000, and you could imagine arriving here in the middle of dead winter. In fact, when I landed at JFK there was a big snowstorm happening. It was the first time I saw snow, and I thought it was beautiful looking at it from up in the air, from the sky. And going through those airport rolling doors and being hit by that cold, cold air was a really bizarre sensation that I never felt that way. 

Fast forward and make my way to Kalamazoo, Western Michigan where I went to college. I was welcomed by a community of people who were just so kind. When I think about those days and where we are now as a world, I always felt that I had been very fortunate all along my path up through my career to have met incredible human beings who supported me and just made me feel at home. And I'm going to go back to that because that means a lot in many ways and why hospitality is so important to me. 

A funny story, when I arrived in Michigan, we had a chaperone. His name is Chris. He was basically in charge of meeting the students and showing them around and make sure that we had everything we needed. When I went to meet our coach, the team was already practicing and I arrived. My father back home had found the heaviest jacket in Senegal he could find and gave it to me, and I thought I was prepared. And I remember standing by the sideline as practice was going on, and my whole body started to shake because I was cold. And Chris looks at me and says, “Cherif, are you okay?” And the first thing I said to him was, “I'm cold.” And he's looking at me, this young Senegalese guy who just got here, barely speaking English. And he then put his arm on my jacket and felt it and said, “Yes, your jacket isn't heavy enough for Michigan.” I said, “I know, I will need to find heavier jackets.” 

And fast forward, a few days go by, a week goes by, and I started receiving these boxes at my dorm, and boxes of shoes and jackets. Every time I open a box, there's a brand new jacket in there or these winter boots, just different style. And I reached out to Chris and said, “Chris, I don't know what's going on. I keep receiving all these jackets to my dorm.” And he said, “Yes, I might have said it at church that one of our new young athletes from Senegal is in need of winter clothing, and the whole town went nuts.” 

You know, for me, it was such an incredible act of kindness for people who I've never met, but who cared about me enough to make sure that I was clothed for the winter, that I had what I needed. It was a signal that– because at that time I was really nervous. I was a little depressed and stressed out about the whole transition from living and growing up in West Africa to living in Michigan. And in that very moment I realized something, that home is not a place that you can touch. [POINTS AT HEART] Home is in here, and what makes home, home is people. There is a sense of familiarity that could be created that would make people feel at home in any space. And it was an incredible, powerful lesson for me that opened my eyes that although I had left my home country Senegal, I was now in a place where I was being welcomed and made feel at home. 

And the day I made that connection, everything about how I felt moving in the US, moving to the US, living in Michigan, immediately changed. I was just a much happier person. I was more connected to everything I was doing. I was doing better at school. I was performing better on the pitch. All of this because I felt supported. I felt as I was part of something, part of a group of people who I used to look at as strangers. And I was no longer a stranger. And that, for me, became the foundation of what I know to be the power of human connection, when you make people feel as they belong or that they feel seen. 

And fast forward, at the end of that first, my first year here at school… at the end of the school year, we were all talking about what we were gonna do during summer. Western Michigan, Kalamazoo is a college town, everyone leaves, and friends of mine were going back to New York City. They told me every summer you can go find a place to stay in New York City, find something to do, work somewhere and make some money, save it for school year. And I did just that. The day school ended, I hopped on a Greyhound bus, made my way to New York City. 

And as soon as I get into the city, I started looking for work, going door to door, looking for a way to stay busy. And I walked into this restaurant. It's a Thai-Vietnamese restaurant called Rain. And I remember walking in, just the lights in the restaurant. There was this energy that I was very familiar with, but I couldn't tell what it was. But I wanted that energy, and it took me years to understand what that was. But I finally got it. Because the moment I was hired to be a busboy in a restaurant, I wanted to spend every single free moment of my life there. I was there every single day. If I wasn't scheduled, I'll call the restaurant, ask the manager if they needed someone. I would come and clean the floor if you needed it. 

And growing up in Senegal, I grew up in a big family. I'm one of nine siblings. 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Wow.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

When my mom would cook lunch or dinner, every meal felt like a Thanksgiving dinner. There was just so many people in the house, cousins, uncle, food in large quantity, it's bustling. And having the habit of eating and being in community like that, you just all of a sudden finding myself alone in a setting where you were sitting at a table eating a sandwich, there was a disconnect, and how food felt to me was different. And I think being in a restaurant and seeing finally people eating together as a group, family sitting in one table, chit chatting, enjoying food together in that communal setting brought me back to something I was really longing for, and I just latched onto that and never really looked back. I knew I had found another missing piece of my home from the way I was looking at things.

I immediately fell in love with restaurants and knew this is what I wanted to do. I knew from the beginning, from my first day, from the first time I set foot in a dining room space, that this would be a place I would want to come back to over and over and over. And you put those two ideas together–the human connection side and what food means in a communal setting for the person, which is not just how it feeds your tummy, but how it feeds your heart and your soul–hospitality becomes a place that I call my happy place. Restaurants become a place that I call my happy place. And it's the only job I've ever done. It's the only thing I know how to do. And I feel like if I have one thing that is my destiny in this world, this is it.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it. I love it. And of course, every city has its own vibe and everything as well. And what you find in New York can be translated into another city, right? And I think that's the beauty of hospitality as well, as you're talking about. So you're now working in the city. Are you like, “I'm going to do this. Let's just find my next job” and find or were you still kind of tied to going back to school and then coming back and going back to school?

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

Yeah, I did that every year. Every summer I would come back to New York and go back to school. And literally school will end today, I'll be on the bus the same day, back to the city. And at every step of this journey, I was longing for the next thing. Working as a busboy, I wanted to become a food runner. Because as a food runner, you get to see more kitchen interaction. You get to run food to the table. When I was a busser, your job was just to bus tables and reset and pour water. And I would get excited about every step I took. From a runner, you became a server. From a server, you become a lead captain. And you started to see the variances between restaurants and how services perform. 

And it was important for me to learn as much as I could. So I worked for various companies and various chefs across the country, from Main Street Hospitality Group back in the days that used to own restaurants like Django, used to own Calle Ocho, Rain East, Rain West, to working for David Bouley back in the days. I really experienced fine dining at first. That's where I cut my teeth on that and understood how service could be so much more than just the way I knew what it was back then. 

To working for China Grill Management, spending time in California with Michael Mina. China Grill Management in New York City was where I really developed my first… that's where I was first exposed to the corporate side of running restaurants. Where China Grill was across states, across countries, standardized process were a big deal and the human, the HR side of things, very involved and just amazing training. By the time I left China Grill Management, I think I felt that I'd become a strong manager, that I was well-equipped both in operation and service experience, to be able to take on the role of the general manager in restaurants. 

And that led me to Dinex Group where I think all of that just came together full blast. Being at Café Boulud, which is to me still today, I would say it felt like a sacred temple because you were shoulder to shoulder with some of the most talented people in the industry. And you looked at this, every time you walk into the restaurant, you saw names on the walls, people who had been there before we were, and you're talking about the Andrew Carmellinis of the world, the David Changs of the world, Gavin Kaysen and other people who were just there and moved on to do amazing things. And you knew you were stepping into big shoes here. And that was always a strong source of inspiration for me. And that's where Aaron, and I met and you know the rest is history.

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

The rest is history. The rest is the beginning of the next chapter, right? You know, I was very fortunate to meet you at that time as well. I'll also kind of hone in to a couple of things you said when you were talking about your time at China Grill Management Group, because I also see that you held several positions there, staying there for a handful of years and really kind of growing your career and learning there. And oftentimes for front of house, it's a little less structured on how you can kind of navigate your career path and get to the next level or to get into management or different types of decision making that needs to happen when you think about what career path you want to take. So I love that you tried a couple things and you worked your way up from a busboy all the way to Assistant F&B Director at China Grill Management and then into Service Director at Café Boulud. So that's really quite the career path there. And obviously, Chef Daniel and Aaron and that whole organization is also just like one big family.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Yes, yes, yes. It truly felt that way. It's something that Dinex really excelled at, is they give you this sensation, this feeling that this restaurant is yours to run. And they give you the tools to run it like you own it. And I think that just gets you closer to the goal of doing it yourself or owning it one day.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah. Now, while you were doing this, were you thinking, “One day I want to own my own restaurant” or were you just loving being part of these other organizations that you were helping build?

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

That became a more pronounced goal when I was at Dinex for sure. I think it was always a goal, but there is something about having a goal and having a dream. And those are different things because a dream can be a fantasy. It could be something that's in the back of your mind that you always think of and fantasize about, “Oh man, it would be nice if one day I do this.” It becomes a goal the moment you start taking active steps to reach it. Because then you are actively pursuing an idea, and that becomes the goal that becomes closer, it becomes more of something you can reach and achieve. 

And early part of my career, I think it was a dream. It was an idea that was always somewhere in my head, but my goals back then were to become the best manager I could. Those were what I was actively working on and pursuing and studying. And when I reached a point in life where I felt that I had the tools, and I think that's when this dream of owning a restaurant became a goal.

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

I love that, the difference between a dream and a goal and how to– I mean, that's like a really practical way to think about basically taking steps to achieve potentially a dream that you have. Tangible next steps, right? Let's be practical about this now. 

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Yeah.

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

Okay. So now you're doing your thing here New York, and Houston is really far away from New York.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

Houston, Texas.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yes, yes. So take me through the thought process and the opportunity of essentially going to join Aaron in doing this exciting project… or projects now that you've grown so much.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

Yeah, Aaron and I had such a great time working together. He's a close friend. I think of him as a friend first before I think of him as a colleague at this point. And I trust him so much. Really, again, because of the experience I had working with him, by the time Aaron had made a decision to move back to Houston, Texas with Victoria, we were talking about the idea of maybe there is a place where we get back together and try to do something together along the lines of opening a restaurant. 

And in fact, I remember days when Aaron and I would sit in our office at Café Boulud sometimes at the end of our service when we had finished everything, talking about just potentially if we were to open a restaurant one day, what that restaurant would look like, where it would be. There's this very specific day when we're on the computer, Googling a space that's sitting on top of this hill overlooking this gorgeous valley and see that this would be an awesome place to build a beautiful restaurant. Those were just little nit-bits saying that their interest was there. 

And I think when Aaron one day asked me to meet up for coffee, I knew there was something in his mind. And if I was to guess, I'm like, he's probably trying to, he's probably… he has an idea. And we sat for coffee on the Upper East Side, and we were chatting and he had barely uttered the words, “So Cherif, I was thinking about, you know, we open a restaurant in Houston, and if you'd be interested to come down with your family?” I said yes. He looks at me and said, “I mean, you might want to go talk to your wife about this and everything.” 

Because I was already there in my head, I think I felt the momentum building towards this. I felt the time was right. And Monica and I had been already having this conversation. Monica is my wife. We had three kids. Our third was just born at the time in New York City. We knew it was time to turn the page and move on to a different place that will make it easier for us to raise our young family. And Houston, I had previously been to Houston. I had previously visited Houston and knew enough about it to know this was a city that checked off the boxes of what I was looking for, for my family and for myself. Houston has incredible diversity. The cost of living is certainly more achievable than it is in New York City. And people are genuinely very welcoming here. Southern hospitality is a real thing, it lives here. And I fell in love with that idea, with that whole energy that the city provides. So when the opportunity came up, when Aaron presented me with the idea, I immediately said, “Yes, I'm in.” And we went on to just say, “OK, well, then let's go for it.”

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Let's just do it. Yeah.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Yeah, he moves back to Houston, and Monica and I start preparing to make the transition and move here. And we had just signed our lease and started demo of the restaurant in March 2020 when COVID hit. And it was definitely a scary time because I had all my chips in, I was moving to this new city with my whole family, and COVID is raging, and we were trying to open a restaurant in that time. There were many sleepless nights about this. But I felt that things… You know, I think on a business side of things, it's important to have the confidence to take some of those difficult steps when you're faced with adversity. And if you don't take a chance, then you never really went in, and you never really tried. So I was committed to seeing this through, and my thought was, look, we're gonna have plan A, plan B, plan C, and let's just go fishing and maybe go away. But I knew this was something that we had to go through, and Aaron and I were talking, he's like, “Cherif, what’s the plan here?” and I said, “There's only one way through this is through this, so let's go.”

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

I love it. Yeah. I mean, that's the determination and drive combined with passion that can't be stopped. Right. So congrats. And look at you now. You just opened your third… fourth… third… third location…

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Yes, fourth.

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

Fourth location. Geez, I can't keep up. And I'll say actually when I was talking to Gavin Kaysen, he also mentioned something that he learned at Café Boulud. which was he treated that place like his own, right? And he was empowered to and clearly he had the tools to and the resources to really treat it like their own. And that prepared him to kind of go off on his own. So you sound like you had similar–especially because it's the same location. But what were some of the most difficult things when you started opening your project, your restaurant? Besides COVID and a global pandemic and all the other stuff that's going on. But did you have a couple of specific challenges that you were like, “Oh this is new or different”?

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Yeah, I think everything that we do, it doesn't matter what it is, has the set of challenges attached to that. And I think this is a good question because some of them stand out more than others. But I think certainly related to COVID a little bit, but I think staffing in general, the level of talents that we were hoping to have and find became something clear to me that was not readily accessible to… You know, when you're in New York City, you're spoiled by just so many talented people coming to New York City from across the world to work in hospitality. And whether you're looking for a talented cook or server, they're just more accessible. And we quickly found out that here we had to really invest and hammer down on training and inspecting what you expect. So this was probably the first set of challenges that jumped at me at the opening. 

We felt that the product had great potential to be a great product, whether it's the food or service. We had the ideas, the vision. I had a very good, clear image of what service and the identity and the culture of this restaurant needed to feel and look like, but it was a process to get there. And it took some time to really focus on developing a team that was able to do this so that we can continue this journey. And that was hard. But once you develop that core group of people and had the training in place, I think it became more manageable. It became the height of the training the trainers, and this philosophy just became what it is now.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, and I could attest to it. I was very fortunate to be able to–I don't get to Houston as often as I'd like, but I will be there in a couple of weeks, see you at the festival. And I'm going to three of your four locations. But you absolutely could feel the hospitality, the energy when you go to Bludorn restaurant. And I'm a little biased because obviously I know you, Aaron and Victoria in a different city, but to see that same energy and love in a totally new city for me was really cool. It was really cool. I mean, it really speaks volumes to what you all were able to create in the vision you had and how you were able to execute because I think everyone knows that you can't grow if you don't have the right people. You know, the right foundation and the people and everything you talked about, because that's a little bit of a recipe for disaster if you just keep growing more of a broken project if you will. So congrats.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

Thank you, thank you, Alice. And this is not a shameless plug, but I would say tapping into Culinary Agents for us was a key at that phase. And I'm sure you remember when we were so quick to reach out to you and get our [Culinary Agents] page set up because it was the only place where we could tap into other cities, other markets, and really see the talent that was becoming available. It just expanded our channels for us to reach out to more, and immediately that's what happened. For our first year opening, we had our entire management team came from other cities, from California, from New York, from Chicago. Our somms came from other cities, and it happened because of Culinary Agents, and we were able to pull people from different places who had the experience that we were really looking for as a seed to develop what we've been able to create.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love, thank you for saying that. And I'm going to turn it right back to you on a positive level because the brand that you build drew these people in, right? People knew from your reputation and what you did, regardless of what city you're in. They already had a sense of understanding of what was going to happen if they joined your team. So that again, we can spend the rest of the time just patting each other on the back. But I don't get the opportunity to say that enough to you and Aaron and Victoria, but it has been incredible also to see from behind the screen on the Culinary Agents side. So whatever you need, we're here. We're so proud to continue to support your growth. It's been really, really phenomenal to watch. And, and you're just getting started. I know. So what's next?

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

We just announced our fifth restaurant which is opening next summer here in the Woodlands, Texas. This will be our first restaurant outside of the city limits of Houston. This will be a Bar Bludorn concept and probably our largest size restaurant in terms of footprint. We're excited about this, because as we continue to expand and grow, eventually we'll find ourselves in other cities, and that's the dream. But baby steps. 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

That's right.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

I think if we can do this for a restaurant that's 150 miles away, then perhaps we can step out to 300 miles away.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

That’s right. So you have the dream. Now you get the goals. 

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Yeah. Yes.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

You crush the goals and get closer to the dream, right? I love it. That's my takeaway. But yes, I'm excited to see more about that project. And again, you all should be very proud. I know you're too busy taking care of other people sometimes, right? 

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

Thank you.

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

But on that note, I also want to talk a little about in your speaking of being busy, amongst all this stuff, you still find time to support and be part of the leadership team for Southern Smoke Foundation, which is an incredible organization that supports the hospitality industry and individuals in crisis. And that's just another example of how giving you are of your time and your energy.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

Thank you, thank you. It's our responsibility to take care of our own, our people and people of the hospitality industry. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of nets out there to provide that safety when people need it. So Southern Smoke stepped into that and is incredible at what they do. And I immediately felt that this was the right organization for me to lend a hand when I could and couldn't be more proud to be on that board.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yes, and festival’s in a couple of weeks, even though this is going to air after, but I look forward to celebrating with you. OK, on that note, we're going to quick-fire. What advice would you tell your younger self?

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI

Enjoy the moment. No matter how challenging it is, no matter how intense it could be, enjoy it. It will pay 10 times, 100 times, and this is part of the growth.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

What's your advice for someone struggling in the industry?

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

You know, that one hits because depending on what the struggle is, I think having someone to talk to, whether it's a mentor or someone who understands what you're going through–it could be your brother, your sister, your colleague, someone that you trust in the trenches with you. In what we do, we spend a lot of time taking care of others. And like we just said, very often we forget to take care of ourselves. And I think it's important to have someone across the mirror who sees you and takes care of you, or you know is doing that. So I would say look out for that person, make those connections, and find the person who you look up to, who you can talk to.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

What's your advice for fellow hospitality leaders?

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Let's take care of our own. I think, you know, when I think about the hospitality industry and what it's gone through and the changes that have happened in the last two decades, these are the times that we're in and it's only going to continue. And I think we must always think about the next generation and what we can do to give them even better opportunities than we were given when we were in their shoes. And this is how we pay for it.

HOST: ALICE CHENG 

On that note, thank you so much Cherif for your time. It's so nice to see you. Can't wait to see you in person. And I loved hearing the story, and I got to learn a couple of things during this episode as well. Thank you.

GUEST: CHERIF MBODJI 

Alice, it's my absolute pleasure and honor to be on this call. Thank you for having me.

HOST: ALICE CHENG
Remember, success looks different for everyone in hospitality. No two paths are the same. If you have a leader or a topic you want to hear about, email [email protected].

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