EP 22: Michael Anthony

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Welcome to Hospitality On The Rise, the podcast about the people shaping the hospitality industry and their journeys. I'm your host, Alice Cheng, founder and CEO of Culinary Agents, hospitality's go-to hiring platform. And I'm here to give you your dose of virtual mentorship.

Here, we'll be sharing the stories, lessons learned, and advice from hospitality leaders who've carved out their own path to success. After all, this industry is where many get their start and go on to do incredible things.

Whether you're a pro, starting out, or just love the hustle, this podcast highlights what makes hospitality extraordinary, the people.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I'm so excited to have Chef Mike Anthony here with us today. Chef is the Executive Chef Partner Gramercy Tavern for the past 19 years. He is also Chef Partner Waldorf Astoria New York, member of Board of Directors and Culinary Council God's Love We Deliver, member of Food Council City Harvest. And three time James Beard Foundation Award winner for 2015 Outstanding Chef, 2012 Best Chef New York City, 2015 Best Vegetable Focused Cookbook, V is for Vegetables. Welcome.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Thank you, Alice.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

So, you know, I want to highlight the fact that you have been at the helm at Gramercy Tavern for 19 years. The restaurant itself has been opened for–this is the 31st year, celebrated 30th year anniversary last year. That is no easy feat.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

You know, I'm proud of the position that I hold here. I am as in love with this restaurant as I have always been. And it's a surprise to me that I've been in one place in my life for this long. It certainly was filled with a lot of exciting chapters, but it's just amazing. I kind of find it… I feel like I'm a little old when I tell people how many years I've worked in this restaurant.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Well, you know, I would say “wise”, right? “Old” is not the word. And that's going to bring us into: how did it all begin?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Well, you know, this was not a particular chapter in my life that I saw coming. It was an interesting story. The way in which I arrived at Gramercy Tavern was interesting because I think a lot of people in our restaurant industry ultimately admire the folks that we call colleagues. And I certainly had met Danny Meyer, and I knew of the restaurant. 

When I moved to New York City in 1995, I had never lived in this city and never worked in a restaurant here. And I was very aware of Gramercy Tavern. It was one year old, and I was moving from overseas, and I was really interested in learning about American cooking, and I got to know a few of the people that were working in the restaurant at that time. And I really admired it from afar. I asked a lot of the folks, you know, in the various restaurants where I worked early on in my career here in New York, “What do you know? What do you think about Gramercy Tavern?” 

And so it was an important restaurant for everyone who loves food. And that partnership with Danny Meyer and the founding chef, Tom Colicchio, was on everyone's attention and certainly mine. But I didn't know that that would be a part of my story.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah. Well, let's take two steps back and even way before this. Curious minds want to know, when did you know that this industry was the right one for you, for your career?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

I feel like I came to that decision pretty late in life, meaning I had grown up in the Midwest. My family's not in the restaurant business. I had worked in restaurants in high school and college, but for fun. And I didn't really think about– I didn't really think about it as a career path and a living at that point. But then I graduated from Indiana University with degrees in business and languages, and I started traveling. Literally the day after graduation, I jumped on a plane, I had a job lined up in Japan, and I moved there. 

And I think it was one of those moments in life, kind of being far away from family and friends, really exploring, searching, a little soul searching. It was an introspective period in my life. And I wrote a letter to the culinary critic of the International Herald Tribune, Clint Hall. If you're out there, Clint, another huge thank you. I've said thank you a few times over the years, but I didn't know him, and he answered my letter. I expressed interest in learning about cooking. I talked to him about my interest in languages and culture, and the guy reached out, which was kind of surprising to me. 

While I thought it was a long shot to ask for help from a stranger to be introduced to a Japanese kitchen, and I asked if I could get in and do some work. I knew how to work hard. I knew my way around the kitchen. But yeah, it seemed like a long shot. And he made an introduction that turned out to be my first job working in the restaurant industry. It was a Japanese-French restaurant called Shima in Tokyo in the heart of Roppongi. And I was thrilled and years later thankful for that kind of gesture that people make when they help people along a career path.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Hospitality. That's hospitality for you.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

You know what, there's no real way to say thank you to that sort of gesture. But it has marked my career, and I try to pass that forward. You know, the interest in seeing people navigate through a pretty tough industry has been a part of my life and comes from that initial appreciation for the folks that helped me.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I will say I'm gonna hone in on that for a second, is that sometimes you just gotta ask and think about what you want.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

You know, that is very true. If you don't ask, you will not get. And sometimes that comes across as an arrogant statement, but it's true. It takes that kind of inner courage to reach out and both articulate for yourself what you're hoping for. I think some people have trouble doing that. I think it's a common thing to feel a little uneasy about, especially people who are self-aware and, you know. I've always had a little hesitation when it comes to asking for an idea, ideating what I am really dreaming of. And, over the years, I think I've gotten better at it. But it's hard for young people. Especially when you give that much reverence to people who are in this industry and you look up to them, it kind of makes it even more intimidating sometimes to just imagine yourself a few years down the road and what you might accomplish. 

So it is something that I ask of everyone who comes to work at Gramercy Tavern is that they can find that source of courage to ask good questions. That is what makes our restaurant tick. And it's not a privilege, it's an expectation of working here.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. Having trouble talking today. So now you have this amazing eye-opening experience, and where do you go from there?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

I worked in the restaurant for about two years, and I feel like I learned really the foundation of what I have used over the years as kind of great decision making in the kitchen. It was a gritty lesson, a lot of gritty lessons about loving the restaurant business is not really only a romantic endeavor. It is about determination and focus, and my chef would try to, I think in a tough love kind of way, instill those qualities. You have to remember these recipes, don't just write them down. You have to think about the right tool for the right job. You have to clean as you work. You have to think ahead in order to be organized. 

And all of these are kind of standard fundamentals in the kitchen, but I learned them early on when I really didn't have a foundation at all. And I picked up on one of those things early on and they were great. About two years in, the chef said to me, “Well, now I've taught you everything I know, and it's time for you to go.” And I was kind of astounded. I was a little caught off guard. I really loved living in Japan. I still feel passionate about Japanese culture and Japanese food. And I was a little put off. I thought I was kind of getting booted out, but that really wasn't the deal. My chef said, “Look, you're from the West. You should move to Paris and go to cooking school. You need to have those foundations in order to know what you're doing. And, as long as you don't mess this up, you should be fine.” 

I did speak the language, so that helps. And as it turned out, she had been one of the first international students at the cooking school named Ferrandi in Paris. So her advice was move to Paris and go to cooking school. I had to think carefully about that. It was an early time in my life when I had to ask myself, am I going to follow the advice of someone who is more experienced and wiser than I am, or am I just going to do my thing? This is what I want.

And I decided to follow her advice, and I moved to Paris. My parents thought that I had really gone off the deep end at that point. And I enrolled in school, and I had the time of my life. It was really not easy, but I realized then that I was doing exactly what I wanted to do.

Shima, my chef, came to Paris twice to make some key introductions to chefs along the way that helped me with part-time jobs while I was in cooking school to make sure I wasn't messing around…

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Checking up on you.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

…and taking all of this great teaching that I had received. And so it was a continuation of that kind of tough mentorship. And by that time I started appreciating it a little bit more with some distance between us, but it was always an interesting and ultimately a really beneficial relationship, like that tough love. So I went to cooking school. I got myself involved in a few part-time jobs in restaurants right off the bat. And I was just soaking up as much information as I could living and working in Paris.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

And at what point were you like, “It's time to come back to the States and go to New York”?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

So several years later, I had a few amazing experiences. I wasn't really sure that I wanted to leave France, but I had become engaged to who became my first wife. And I was worried I had kind of exhausted all of the legal ways of staying in that country. And we had collectively together, we decided to move to New York. And the chef that I was working for in Paris was kind enough to reach out to Daniel Boulud and negotiate a job. 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I like it.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

And I moved to New York City without ever having set foot in this amazing city. 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Wow.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

I knew though when I got here on day one, it was just like, “Man, where have you been all my life? What was I thinking? Why didn't I come here sooner?” I loved it. I was really– I still am, you know, for somebody who grew up outside of the city, I'm a huge fan of this place.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I love how you use the word negotiate with a chef.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Well, you know, I mean, it is kind of how it goes. And it was lucky that he opened a door. But, you know, it's actually a good point. These phone calls sometimes feel flattering for young people. But the reality of it is, is that an employer, a chef will frequently go out of their way to make an introduction. But all they are doing is opening the door. You have to walk through it and make of it what you will. 

And so that was, you know, really I think I found… Initially I found that a little flattering, and I thought I was coming in like some kind of NBA player that had been traded at mid-season. And that is not at all what was waiting for me. And while I was a little surprised by it, it is quite normal. But I think it's an important lesson that I try to convey to my kids and to the people who work for me is that we're happy to open doors. It's our responsibility to open doors, but it is the individual's responsibility of making what they will with that opportunity. Nothing is a given. 

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah. And don't forget. Sorry, go ahead. 

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Yeah, that's it. Nothing.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I was going to say, don't forget to– You know, most people won't open the door just for anyone. They're opening the door because you spent time with them. They recognize a certain level of dedication, passion, skill, ability. And then they are willing to open the door. And then what you do with that next is up to you. So it's like a full circle of like, do your work, do it well and dedicate yourself to where you are when you're there. And then don't forget to ask. Earn the right to ask and know what you're asking for. And then do right by whatever comes after that.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Yeah, exactly.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

All right, so you're in DANIEL, and at this point is it the Park Avenue location or is it…?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

No, this was the original restaurant.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

The OG, yeah.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

On 76th Street and in the Surrey Hotel. It was a couple of years into the life of the restaurant, and they had just been recognized with I think the first New York Times review, which really situated the restaurant front and center, not just on the Upper East Side, but in all of New York's minds. Daniel had established himself already for years of living and working in New York City.

I stepped into a team of amazing people, and the kitchen was led by Chef Alex Lee, who is just one of the all-time greats, and that doesn't even begin to describe the role that he plays, continues to play in our industry. He became a mentor, and even to this day we're good friends and he continues to be a mentor. And it was a really active, energetic and somewhat wild kitchen. There was so much attention on the restaurant. There were so many ambitious people in the kitchen. Most of them are still kind of household names these days, owning their own restaurants, restaurant companies, having achieved a lot of success individually along the way. 

And it was just, it couldn't have been a more exciting introduction to working in New York. And there were so many aspects of the job that I was not prepared for. And I felt incredibly lucky to be in the mix. And now looking back on it, I feel like it was just a great way to start working here in New York City.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah. If you're going to come here for the first time, that is definitely a special place to begin your journey. So from there, you had a couple of more places before you finally landed at Gramercy Tavern. Talk a little bit… I see Blue Hill here as well?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Yeah. Well, when I left the restaurant DANIEL, I actually began working in a really wonderful restaurant that was called March, March Restaurant. And it was also kind of located in Midtown, but a little further east. Chef Owner Wayne Nish and his partner, Joe Scalise, built an exquisite restaurant in a townhouse that for most people felt like they were stepping into someone's home. Although most of us don't have homes that look quite like that. And they taught me so many lessons, and it was the first time that I had worked in an American restaurant. And it was not just a new set of techniques and skills or even kitchen culture, it was a new way of looking at the world. 

And I think when I look back on these experiences and I see a lot of cooks in the industry kind of trying to make good decisions to form their careers–and there are so many ways that can look at this–I just feel quite lucky to have met people that had very specific visions about the way they treat people, about the way they cook food, and the way they run businesses. You know, the restaurant industry is so complex, it's not as simple as it seemed initially. I mean, I realized that being a line cook was such an exciting luxury in a way, because I only had to dream about food. I just had to control one person: myself. I had to think clearly about the day in very specific terms. And yet the industry is so complex when you start to look at everything around us that ultimately feeds success of a restaurant and sometimes what causes them to stumble. 

And so working in that setting was again, not something I could have imagined beforehand. I didn’t meticulously pick out that restaurant, but I ended up working there for four years, and it had a huge impact on the way I see our business and the way I treat people. And ultimately it did give me a lot of personal tools that have helped me to kind of make my way through multiple kitchens. 

When I left March Restaurant, I moved to work at a new restaurant called Blue Hill in the city. I was the co-chef at Blue Hill on Washington Street. And a short time later, we met Mr. David Rockefeller and became introduced to the idea that the Rockefeller family had decided to transform this family farm in Westchester County into a working agricultural center and a restaurant. It turned kind of a… It was a fantasy-like project that came to fruition. And I've never fallen so deeply in love with a restaurant before. And I ultimately ended up moving; I left the city, which was a tough thing given how much I love the city, but it couldn't have been more thrilling to move there and help to plan and organize, design and build that restaurant. And to this day, it remains, you know, one of the most thrilling and challenging projects that I think I'll ever be involved in.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, it is truly a special place up there and very in-line with your love of vegetables, and it remains to be a special place. So you spend your time there, and then the draw of Manhattan's just like calling you back, right?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

I actually moved back, and I had reconnected with some friends and I thought I would kind of act on this dream that many of us have. I wanted to open a business at my own restaurant in New York City. And I wrote a business plan and found a location, and I took the business plan to Danny, of all people, who wasn't involved in the project, and I wasn't looking for investment. What I was hoping for was advice and some stewardship, and he gave that and more. And through the process of having multiple conversations about this dream of mine, at one point we took a right-hand turn, and the idea of working at Gramercy Tavern became a possibility. And well, I mean, it didn't take long to digest what he was asking if I would consider working in this beautiful, you know, it's probably the best stage for American cooking that a young chef could have imagined. And so I agreed. 

Although I thought I knew a few things about the restaurant business, I stepped very naively into a deep and sophisticated group of people with a culture that was fascinating and determined and so deeply connected that it was quite frankly surprising, pleasantly surprising to find Danny's vision and his philosophy in motion in this place, but held together by a team that was so devoted and so in love with the vision and running this restaurant that it just… I like working in places where people care deeply about what they're doing. And I could not have been in it deeper. 

But I had to learn a lot right off the bat. This is the largest restaurant that I have ever worked in to this day. And I had to learn a new way of communicating, a new way of interacting, a new way of planning and a new way of setting goals. I just had to rethink my whole story. And this restaurant's culture is and was so powerful that it was clear to me early on, it wouldn't be the restaurant that would be changing, adjusting, bending to my point of view. It would be the other way around. It would be me that would have to adapt and adopt and learn. And it was really challenging. 

And I think that also is a great lesson to share with people who are out there who have the great opportunity to run their own kitchens and build their own teams. There's a certain humility that is necessary to, I think, sticking around in this business. And we have to keep learning every single day. And whether that's joining a new team and understanding what makes it tick or inviting a new person from the outside into our kitchen, there are lessons to learn from every angle and I take that very seriously. The people who come to work here, again, I mentioned that I asked them to be courageous and stand up and share something that will ultimately impact our operation. That means that I take them seriously and listen carefully.

While that was a large learning curve in my life, I think it was consistent with the way I like to treat people. I keep my eyes and ears open because there is always something that may make me rethink my position, my ideas, and if I don't have a good answer for these questions, then I better think carefully about what I'm saying.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I didn't want to interrupt that at all. I was like, please just continue your thought. I mean, there's many things to be said about the consistency and longevity of Gramercy Tavern, the experience, the team, the culture, the food, everything. So kudos to you and the team, and leave it to Danny, who's brilliant of recognizing talent and being able to kind of reframe your thinking to connect it, to match it to something that he was looking for probably all along, right?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And through the process, the restaurant has continued to evolve. And I could not be more proud, ultimately, of many steps along the way in which we tackled big ideas. And the team continued to respond to that. It was a huge lesson in my life to also realize that by working together, even restaurants that excel in one particular way can tackle new challenges, set new goals, and keep painting a new horizon. In fact, I really think that is probably one of the secrets to the longevity of this business is being able to look in the mirror each day and take a minute to congratulate oneself–myself, the team–and then turn around and say, “I bet we can do this better” or “I bet there's something else out there that would make everybody excited”. And so I think that's part of the longevity of this restaurant. 

You know, we celebrated 30 years last year, and I didn't take it for granted. There aren't many restaurants that can navigate the challenges of our restaurant industry for 30 years, but I don't think that becomes… like on the surface, I don't think that explains that Gramercy Tavern in spirit is really like running a restaurant that is more like three years old. And I mean that. It's not an old restaurant that is sure of its ways and that which declines to reinvent itself. It's a restaurant that is as young and vibrant as it has ever been. And I think that we're going strong. 

And the last five years in our business could not have been more challenging. But the reality of that is that in the restaurant industry, as in life, there is nothing that you can count on except for things to change. 

And so Danny said something during the time that the restaurant was closed that I know impacted the leaders of this company deeply, and he said, “During the time that we're not in our restaurants making our guests happy, taking care of our teams, what will we do? What will your masterpiece be when we get out of this? Because we will make it through this.” That was a really profound thing. 

We had encouragement to take classes online at Cornell. We thought deeply about our systems and procedures. We rewrote a lot of the rules that we had felt were so important to our restaurant for so long. And I think that is another really good lesson, is that sometimes you don't really see these huge changes in life coming. How could we? Who could have seen that coming? And yet, rather than just put our heads down and do nothing, we were able to use that time to essentially reinvent ourselves.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, I love that. Stay curious, stay learning, keep growing, and keep charging forward. Speaking of charging forward, you also have some exciting projects coming up. One being the Waldorf, right? The iconic Waldorf Astoria Hotel here in New York. What else is on the docket? I mean, that's a huge project. You know, I was like, what else you got going on?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Well, it's been a bit all-consuming, and I'm thrilled to be in charge of creating a new restaurant concept within the Waldorf Astoria. You know, I'm happy and excited for all of the city to be able to come back to see this hotel renovated to its original 1931 beauty. It has been a long time coming, so there's a certain buildup of excitement and energy. And the fact that I've created an American brasserie called Lex Yard in the hotel is just amazing, that ownership and operators are all excited to celebrate contemporary American cooking and a concept that hopefully will make the hotel feel as elegant and as beautiful as it has always been. 

And for some of us who have not been able, during our lifetime, to spend some of those most amazing moments in the hotel, we will now get a chance to re-inhabit that prestigious place. But the restaurant is aiming to be more approachable and more welcoming than ever before in that this concept, as is with American cooking, tends to take a little bit of the formality away from dining. This notion of focusing on seasonal ingredients, telling the story of the people who grow the food, getting into what's unique about eating in this particular place during this particular season obviously is what I've been infatuated with my entire career. And thankfully there's a lot of support and excitement around building a concept that embraces those values in the hotel. 

So it is happening, and I know that while a project this complex is bound to take a while to see through, we will see it come to fruition in the next few months. And I just couldn't be more proud to have the space, the opportunity. And I'm excited about adding to the dialogue of American cooking in this city. I feel as thrilled to be here as I did the day I showed up. And so this seems like a really amazing chance to add to the excitement of eating in New York.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Yeah, well, I am very excited. I know a lot of people are excited. I have been there years ago, I'm going to date myself, and so I'm excited to see it reopen and come back to life. So congratulations, 

On that note, we are going to quick-fire. What advice would you tell your younger self?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Be patient. Keep working. This is going to work out. In the restaurant business, you have to be a little careful of what you dream of because you just might get it. And the reality of it is I think I could have saved myself a little panic along the way, and I could have been just a little bit more confident and thoughtful in the choices that I've made by being reassured that this is all going to work out through hard work and staying focused and paying attention to smart people all around.

This industry can be fulfilling. It is not only just satisfying, it can be an amazing way to build a life. I look around me and I'm kind of amazed that I get to do not just what I love to do, but I'm just thrilled that I get to be a part of this industry, in this restaurant, and with new projects coming down the pipe. So it's gonna work out.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

I love it. What's your advice for someone struggling in the industry?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Don't be shy about asking for help. I was, and a lot of people who are ambitious and who grow up with a great sense of work ethic sometimes will put their head down and just work through troubling times. You know, the restaurant industry in particular and life in general can be overwhelming, and there is nothing wrong with looking up and saying, “I have some questions. I need some help.” 

And I think we've built an industry where people are reluctant to actually express out loud when they need help. And I think that we have a society around us that is a little quicker now to embrace those kinds of questions. I would say that asking for all kinds of help, because, look, asking good questions in this business is the essence of learning! So sometimes it comes when you really need it the most, but sometimes it's just pure curiosity. And we're always looking for people who have that natural sense of curiosity that comes bubbling through. That's what makes it fun to come to work every day.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

What's your advice for fellow hospitality leaders?

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

I feel privileged to get to work in this industry. I feel a sense of solidarity in a world that… you know, the outside world loves to portray us as hyper competitive. And I'd be lying, I live in a city where there are over 26, 27 thousand restaurants. So sure, there's some built-in competition, but I've never felt a strong sense of competition within the people who work in this industry. I think leaning in on solidarity, making sure that young people that are coming up in this business feel like they can trust the leadership in their restaurants and in their industry, so that they can share their dreams. “Here's what I'm hoping for. I love working in this restaurant or in this kitchen. But in three months, six months, a year, I'm really kind of dreaming of being in this place. What do you think?” 

And when you ask a chef those questions, you're not only being open and making sure that as the labor source of the kitchen is rotating that you're not catching people by surprise, but you're building a bridge, and you're actually looking, you're saying that you know we may not grow old working together, but down the road I hope that I can always come back to you and ask for advice.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

On that note, Chef Mike Anthony, thank you so much for taking the time to share your advice, your experiences, and your wisdom with our audience. And congratulations for all that you have achieved and for all of the folks who have come through your kitchen and your businesses who have gone on to do great things or are still there. We all certainly appreciate what you contribute to the industry and your insights. Thank you.

GUEST: MIKE ANTHONY

Thanks for having me.

HOST: ALICE CHENG

Remember, success looks different for everyone in hospitality. No two paths are the same. If you have a leader or a topic you want to hear about, email [email protected].

Hospitality On The Rise is brought to you by Culinary Agents, connecting top talent with employers since 2012. Whether you’re hiring or looking for your next opportunity, join us at CulinaryAgents.com

For more inspiration, subscribe to Hospitality On The Rise and visit HospitalityCareerPaths.com, a free platform by Culinary Agents.

Thanks for tuning in! Remember to like, follow, and subscribe. And if you loved this episode, share it with someone who could use a little inspiration.